Out of state driving

[Douglas Harrington]

I understand that with a junior operator's license in Massachusetts
it's a secondary offense to drive between 1AM and 5:30AM under
-MASSACHUSETTS- legislation. However, would this apply to me if I
were driving cross-country and NOT within Massachusetts? This would
be for a trip to Ohio, most likely along I-70 from its eastern
terminus into Ohio. I -could- plan the trip so that when going down
and coming back I am within a 12 hr timeframe which is during the day,
but it would be a hassle and would be easier to drive overnight. Not
sure on how enforced this law even is, but like I said I would be
outside of MA by the time that midnight to 5:30AM time slot comes
around.

[Christopher C. Stacy]

Douglas> I understand that with a junior operator's license in Massachusetts
Douglas> it's a secondary offense to drive between 1AM and 5:30AM under
Douglas> -MASSACHUSETTS- legislation. However, would this apply to me if I
Douglas> were driving cross-country and NOT within Massachusetts?

Your junior operator's license is only valid in Massachusetts.
You don't have any driver's license in the other states.

[Stephen Peters]

Post by Christopher C. Stacy
Douglas> I understand that with a junior operator's license in Massachusetts
Douglas> it's a secondary offense to drive between 1AM and 5:30AM under
Douglas> -MASSACHUSETTS- legislation. However, would this apply to me if I
Douglas> were driving cross-country and NOT within Massachusetts?

Yes. If the RMV finds out from another state that you're violating
the JOL restrictions, even in another state that has no such
provisions, they can suspend your license.

Post by Christopher C. Stacy
Your junior operator's license is only valid in Massachusetts. You
don't have any driver's license in the other states.

That's incorrect. The JOL is a driver's license. If another state,
however, has restrictions on junior operators, then a JOL holder is
subject to those restrictions as well.

http://www.mass.gov/rmv/jol/29.htm

[William H. O'Hara, III]

Post by Christopher C. Stacy
Douglas> I understand that with a junior operator's
license in Massachusetts Douglas> it's a secondary offense
to drive between 1AM and 5:30AM under Douglas>
-MASSACHUSETTS- legislation. However, would this apply to
me if I Douglas> were driving cross-country and NOT within
Massachusetts?
Your junior operator's license is only valid in
Massachusetts. You don't have any driver's license in the
other states.

Most jurisdictions honor the licenses. I believe that
he could not drive through the NYC area with his license.
They require out of state drivers to be at least 18 regardless
of their license status, if I recall it correctly. This does
not apply to the rest of NYS.

Bill

[J Mello]

Post by William H. O'Hara, III

Post by Christopher C. Stacy
Douglas> I understand that with a junior operator's
license in Massachusetts Douglas> it's a secondary offense
to drive between 1AM and 5:30AM under Douglas>
-MASSACHUSETTS- legislation. However, would this apply to
me if I Douglas> were driving cross-country and NOT within
Massachusetts?
Your junior operator's license is only valid in
Massachusetts. You don't have any driver's license in the
other states.

Most jurisdictions honor the licenses. I believe that
he could not drive through the NYC area with his license.

It is not the NYC area, it is only the City of New York proper.

-JMello

[Douglas Harrington]

Post by William H. O'Hara, III
Most jurisdictions honor the licenses. I believe that
he could not drive through the NYC area with his license.

Post by J Mello
It is not the NYC area, it is only the City of New York proper.

Well which is it? Would I have to bypass the NYC stretch of I-95 or
is it unlikely i'd get noticed? I hear the midnight-5 restriction
isn't enforced much within MA, however I don't want to risk being
stopped some 300 miles from home and told my license is invalid.

[Ron Newman]

In article <***@posting.google.com>, Douglas Harrington
says...

Post by Douglas Harrington
I hear the midnight-5 restriction
isn't enforced much within MA, however I don't want to risk being
stopped some 300 miles from home and told my license is invalid.

Perhaps you should reconsider this entire plan?

The Junior Operator License restrictions exist for a purpose. The state isn't
confident enough yet in your ability to drive, especially late at night when you
likely have not had enough sleep.

[SPUI]

Harrington says...

Post by Douglas Harrington
I hear the midnight-5 restriction
isn't enforced much within MA, however I don't want to risk being
stopped some 300 miles from home and told my license is invalid.

Perhaps you should reconsider this entire plan?
The Junior Operator License restrictions exist for a purpose. The
state isn't confident enough yet in your ability to drive, especially
late at night when you likely have not had enough sleep.

Because everyone has a day-shifted sleep schedule.

[David S Chesler]

Post by J Mello

Post by William H. O'Hara, III
Most jurisdictions honor the licenses. I believe that
he could not drive through the NYC area with his license.

It is not the NYC area, it is only the City of New York proper.

IIRC, as of the late 1970s (when this mattered to me) the restrictions
in Nassau and Suffolk were possibly less stringent than in the five
boroughs, but were still more stringent than upstate. Do I remember
correctly? Has it changed since then?

Is NYC really the only place that doesn't honor out-of-state JOLs?

(JOLs haven't been a concern of mine since that time, and I've got 7
years before my kids are in range – although I did learn today that
the age is rising in MA from 16.5 to 17. The mother of a 16-year-old
who told me this said there are calls to raise it to 18. 18-year-olds
aren't noticeably less stupid than 17-year-olds; at that point it's
amount of experience driving.

[John Mara]

Post by David S Chesler

Post by J Mello

Post by William H. O'Hara, III
Most jurisdictions honor the licenses. I believe that
he could not drive through the NYC area with his license.

It is not the NYC area, it is only the City of New York proper.

IIRC, as of the late 1970s (when this mattered to me) the restrictions
in Nassau and Suffolk were possibly less stringent than in the five
boroughs, but were still more stringent than upstate. Do I remember
correctly? Has it changed since then?

From the NYS DMV web site

You must obey the restrictions of both the state that issued the driver
license or the learner permit and the NYS restrictions on learner permits or
junior licenses. Read the the brochure that explains the NYS restrictions.
Contact the state that issued the learner permit or the driver license to
learn about the restrictions in that state. If your learner permit is only
valid in the state that issued the learner permit, you cannot drive in NYS.

Link to the brochure
http://www.nysdmv.com/broch/c41.htm

Two issues that might affect you.

Anywhere in NYS, you must be accompanied by a licensed parent or guardian
between 9 PM and 5 AM unless you are driving between home and work or
school.

You may not drive in New York City at all.

John Mara

[Mitsguy2001]

Subject: Re: Out of state driving
Date: 5/14/2004 9:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time

Post by William H. O'Hara, III

Post by Christopher C. Stacy
Douglas> I understand that with a junior operator's
license in Massachusetts Douglas> it's a secondary offense
to drive between 1AM and 5:30AM under Douglas>
-MASSACHUSETTS- legislation. However, would this apply to
me if I Douglas> were driving cross-country and NOT within
Massachusetts?
Your junior operator's license is only valid in
Massachusetts. You don't have any driver's license in the
other states.

Most jurisdictions honor the licenses. I believe that
he could not drive through the NYC area with his license.

It is not the NYC area, it is only the City of New York proper

That includes all 5 burroughs: Manhattan, Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens, and Staten
Island. Remember that in some of the outer borroughs you may not realize you
are in NYC, but you actually are. Also remember that right turn on red is
prohibbitted in all 5 burroughs.

Just out of curiousity, is flying an option for this trip? It may be a better
option.

[Karen Marshall]

Post by Christopher C. Stacy
Douglas> I understand that with a junior operator's license in Massachusetts
Douglas> it's a secondary offense to drive between 1AM and 5:30AM under
Douglas> -MASSACHUSETTS- legislation. However, would this apply to me if I
Douglas> were driving cross-country and NOT within Massachusetts?
Your junior operator's license is only valid in Massachusetts.
You don't have any driver's license in the other states.

That is incorrect information. Other states have interstate reciprocity
agreements and will accept your Massachusetts license (junior or otherwise). The
privileges of the license are not greater outside of Massachusetts than they are
within Massachusetts. For example if your license has an eye correction
restriction, you need to have corrective lenses even if you are using the license
outside of Mass. If your license restricts your driving hours between midnight
and 0500, you cannot drive during these hours outside of Mass either.
http://www.mass.gov/rmv/jol/29.htm

If somebody has only a junior license, than I would question a decision to drive
cross country in the wee hours of the night. A better choice may be to have an
adult in the car and drive during daylight hours.

[David S Chesler]

Post by Douglas Harrington
I understand that with a junior operator's license in Massachusetts
it's a secondary offense to drive between 1AM and 5:30AM under
-MASSACHUSETTS- legislation. However, would this apply to me if I
were driving cross-country and NOT within Massachusetts? This would
be for a trip to Ohio, most likely along I-70 from its eastern
terminus into Ohio. I -could- plan the trip so that when going down
and coming back I am within a 12 hr timeframe which is during the day,
but it would be a hassle and would be easier to drive overnight. Not
sure on how enforced this law even is, but like I said I would be
outside of MA by the time that midnight to 5:30AM time slot comes
around.

Are you sure that your junior operator's license is valid at
all in those other states?

And (one hates to admit to becoming an old fart) are you sure that
with the lack of experience implied by the junior license, you are
ready for the fatigue that such a long trip entails? (Someone
who is barely good enough when refreshed may not be sharp enough
to drive safely when fatigued.)

[Raoul]

Post by Douglas Harrington
I understand that with a junior operator's license in Massachusetts
it's a secondary offense to drive between 1AM and 5:30AM under
-MASSACHUSETTS- legislation. However, would this apply to me if I
were driving cross-country and NOT within Massachusetts? This would
be for a trip to Ohio, most likely along I-70 from its eastern
terminus into Ohio. I -could- plan the trip so that when going down
and coming back I am within a 12 hr timeframe which is during the day,
but it would be a hassle and would be easier to drive overnight. Not
sure on how enforced this law even is, but like I said I would be
outside of MA by the time that midnight to 5:30AM time slot comes
around.

The Junior Operator restriction is on the back of your license. The
picture on the RMV web site shows the hours when operation is
prohibited. According to the drivers manual, the restricted hours are
from midnight til 5am.

[Douglas Harrington]

The hours mean nothing whatsoever if I am outside the state of
Massachusetts. I am subject to the laws of the state(s) in which I
travel in, and if those states do not have such laws restricting my
driving hours I am okay. It's under Massachusetts state law, not
federal. I will look at those state laws when the time comes to
travel into other states, and if such restrictions do exist, I will
plan my driving accordingly.

I just found the answer to the out-of-state driving issue under a
'JOL'. It is legal and is recognized as a drivers license in other
states. The only thing is that I am subject to any 'junior operator'
restrictions within those states - as I stated above. This from the
Bolton, MA PD website.

Thanks for the help/info.

[Karen Marshall]

Post by Douglas Harrington
The hours mean nothing whatsoever if I am outside the state of
Massachusetts.

Absolutely false if your privileges are granted via a Massachusetts
issued license.

Post by Douglas Harrington
I am subject to the laws of the state(s) in which I
travel in, and if those states do not have such laws restricting my
driving hours I am okay.

That would only be true if your license was issued by the particular
state you are discussing. The recipocrity of the license is not greater
than the restrictions of the license. You can't drive during hours that
the license is not valid for and you cannot drive without corrective
lenses in another state if your license says "Must wear corrective eye
lenses."

Post by Douglas Harrington
It's under Massachusetts state law, not
federal. I will look at those state laws when the time comes to
travel into other states, and if such restrictions do exist, I will
plan my driving accordingly.
I just found the answer to the out-of-state driving issue under a
'JOL'. It is legal and is recognized as a drivers license in other
states. The only thing is that I am subject to any 'junior operator'
restrictions within those states - as I stated above. This from the
Bolton, MA PD website.

That is true but you don't have any additional privileges in another
state than you would in your home state, and it is possible that you may
have less.

[Doug Krause]

Post by Douglas Harrington
The hours mean nothing whatsoever if I am outside the state of
Massachusetts. I am subject to the laws of the state(s) in which I
travel in, and if those states do not have such laws restricting my
driving hours I am okay. It's under Massachusetts state law, not
federal. I will look at those state laws when the time comes to
travel into other states, and if such restrictions do exist, I will
plan my driving accordingly.
I just found the answer to the out-of-state driving issue under a
'JOL'. It is legal and is recognized as a drivers license in other
states. The only thing is that I am subject to any 'junior operator'
restrictions within those states - as I stated above. This from the
Bolton, MA PD website.

I assume you are talking about this page:

http://www.boltonpd.org/NewFiles/license5.html

and you are only reading what you want to read. You are under
the restrictions of any other state you are in AND the restrictions
of the Mass JOL.

See this page posted by someone else:

http://www.mass.gov/rmv/jol/29.htm


So, don't drive alone between 12am and 5am ANYWHERE.

Finally, everybody in this newsgroup has given you some pretty
good advice that you seem set on ignoring. Quite frankly I don't
think any of us care if your license gets suspended, but we're
pretty sure that YOU do.

[Ivan Sever]

Post by Doug Krause
So, don't drive alone between 12am and 5am ANYWHERE.
Finally, everybody in this newsgroup has given you some pretty
good advice that you seem set on ignoring. Quite frankly I don't
think any of us care if your license gets suspended, but we're
pretty sure that YOU do.

On the other hand, if he follows all the traffic rules there is no
reason for the police to check on his age, is there....

Ivan

[Ron Newman]

In article <sever-***@reader3.news.rcn.net>, Ivan Sever
says...

Post by Ivan Sever
On the other hand, if he follows all the traffic rules there is no
reason for the police to check on his age, is there....

He could still get into an accident even while following all of the traffic
laws. Should that happen, the police will want to see his driver's license.
And if he's violating the JOL restrictions, the police may note that fact and
inform the Massachusetts RMV.

Not a risk worth taking, IMHO.