US Highway and Interstate Systems as "Subway Maps"

[Elmer]

FYI - In a monumental effort, Australian graphic designer Cameron
Booth has depicted the entire US Highway and Interstate road systems,
in the style of subway maps:

US Highway System:
http://www.flickr.com//senexprime/6529113417/sizes/o

Interstate Highway System:
http://www.flickr.com/senexprime/5551535100/sizes/o

There's more stuff like this on his blog: http://www.cambooth.net/

Elmer

[Kenny McCormack]

Post by Elmer
FYI - In a monumental effort, Australian graphic designer Cameron
Booth has depicted the entire US Highway and Interstate road systems,
http://www.flickr.com//senexprime/6529113417/sizes/o
http://www.flickr.com/senexprime/5551535100/sizes/o
There's more stuff like this on his blog: http://www.cambooth.net/
Elmer

Wow! That's amazing!

[Andrew M. Saucci, Jr.]

I like the honesty of admitting that I-80 ends in Teaneck and not
New York. The concept of such a map is interesting.

Post by Elmer
FYI - In a monumental effort, Australian graphic designer Cameron
Booth has depicted the entire US Highway and Interstate road systems,
http://www.flickr.com//senexprime/6529113417/sizes/o
http://www.flickr.com/senexprime/5551535100/sizes/o
There's more stuff like this on his blog: http://www.cambooth.net/
Elmer

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by Elmer
FYI - In a monumental effort, Australian graphic designer Cameron
Booth has depicted the entire US Highway and Interstate road systems,
http://www.flickr.com//senexprime/6529113417/sizes/o
http://www.flickr.com/senexprime/5551535100/sizes/o
There's more stuff like this on his blog: http://www.cambooth.net/

I wished he had listed Winnemucca, NV, in both of his subway highway maps.
Its name is too cool to omit.

:)


- Peter

[Beloved Leader]

Post by Elmer
FYI - In a monumental effort, Australian graphic designer Cameron
Booth has depicted the entire US Highway and Interstate road systems,
   http://www.flickr.com//senexprime/6529113417/sizes/o
   http://www.flickr.com/senexprime/5551535100/sizes/o
There's more stuff like this on his blog:http://www.cambooth.net/
Elmer

New York City has something like two highways on the US Highway System
map. By contrast, Asheville, NC, looks like the center of the
universe.

Quite an effort. I like it. Thanks.

[Kenny McCormack]

Post by Beloved Leader

Post by Elmer
FYI - In a monumental effort, Australian graphic designer Cameron
Booth has depicted the entire US Highway and Interstate road systems,
   http://www.flickr.com//senexprime/6529113417/sizes/o
   http://www.flickr.com/senexprime/5551535100/sizes/o
There's more stuff like this on his blog:http://www.cambooth.net/
Elmer

New York City has something like two highways on the US Highway System
map. By contrast, Asheville, NC, looks like the center of the
universe.
Quite an effort. I like it. Thanks.

Indeed. Although, I must point out, some (3 digit) highways are missing.
For example: 141 & 151 in Wisconsin. Now, the intent may have been not to
include 3 digit routes, but note that some 3 digits are there (e.g., 281).
--
Some of the more common characteristics of Asperger syndrome include:

* Inability to think in abstract ways (eg: puns, jokes, sarcasm, etc)
* Difficulties in empathising with others
* Problems with understanding another person's point of view
* Hampered conversational ability
* Problems with controlling feelings such as anger, depression
and anxiety
* Adherence to routines and schedules, and stress if expected routine
is disrupted
* Inability to manage appropriate social conduct
* Delayed understanding of sexual codes of conduct
* A narrow field of interests. For example a person with Asperger
syndrome may focus on learning all there is to know about
baseball statistics, politics or television shows.
* Anger and aggression when things do not happen as they want
* Sensitivity to criticism
* Eccentricity
* Behaviour varies from mildly unusual to quite aggressive
and difficult

[Paul S Wolf]

Post by Kenny McCormack

Post by Beloved Leader

Post by Elmer
FYI - In a monumental effort, Australian graphic designer Cameron
Booth has depicted the entire US Highway and Interstate road systems,
http://www.flickr.com//senexprime/6529113417/sizes/o
http://www.flickr.com/senexprime/5551535100/sizes/o
There's more stuff like this on his blog:http://www.cambooth.net/
Elmer

New York City has something like two highways on the US Highway System
map. By contrast, Asheville, NC, looks like the center of the
universe.
Quite an effort. I like it. Thanks.

Indeed. Although, I must point out, some (3 digit) highways are missing.
For example: 141& 151 in Wisconsin. Now, the intent may have been not to
include 3 digit routes, but note that some 3 digits are there (e.g., 281).

Also missing: 322 and 422 from Cleveland to the East Coast.

[Michael Finfer]

Also missing: 322 and 422 from Cleveland to the East Coast.

One nitpick is that I-95 in NJ was never finished. There's a gap
between a nondescript point in Mercer County (where, when you are
driving, I-95 North suddenly becomes I-295 South) and exit 10 on the
Turnpike.

Details are at www.nycroads.com

Michael Finfer
Bridgewater, NJ

[h***@bbs.cpcn.com]

One nitpick is that I-95 in NJ was never finished.  There's a gap
between a nondescript point in Mercer County (where, when you are
driving, I-95 North suddenly becomes I-295 South) and exit 10 on the
Turnpike.

I think they finally moved the 95N/295S changeover to the junction at
US 1 instead of where the highway was supposed to join in.

[Andrew M. Saucci, Jr.]

While I will always agree that making the New Jersey Turnpike I-95
is atrocious, I believe that officially, I-95 now extends around Trenton
back to I-195 and then to the Turnpike (a route no sane person would take).
When the interchange between I-95 in Pennsylvania and the Pennsylvania
Turnpike is complete, then I-95 will follow the Pennsylvaia Turnpike to the
Jersey Turnpike and the iron gate of tolls will close on another section of
Interstate highway. NYC Roads has not been updated in three years.

When I go that way, I usually follow US-1 to Trenton and get I-95
from there.

Also missing: 322 and 422 from Cleveland to the East Coast.

One nitpick is that I-95 in NJ was never finished. There's a gap between
a nondescript point in Mercer County (where, when you are driving, I-95
North suddenly becomes I-295 South) and exit 10 on the Turnpike.
Details are at www.nycroads.com
Michael Finfer
Bridgewater, NJ

[Free Lunch]

On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 19:05:37 -0500, "Andrew M. Saucci, Jr."

Post by Andrew M. Saucci, Jr.
While I will always agree that making the New Jersey Turnpike I-95
is atrocious, I believe that officially, I-95 now extends around Trenton
back to I-195 and then to the Turnpike (a route no sane person would take).
When the interchange between I-95 in Pennsylvania and the Pennsylvania
Turnpike is complete, then I-95 will follow the Pennsylvaia Turnpike to the
Jersey Turnpike and the iron gate of tolls will close on another section of
Interstate highway. NYC Roads has not been updated in three years.
When I go that way, I usually follow US-1 to Trenton and get I-95
from there.

Also missing: 322 and 422 from Cleveland to the East Coast.

One nitpick is that I-95 in NJ was never finished. There's a gap between
a nondescript point in Mercer County (where, when you are driving, I-95
North suddenly becomes I-295 South) and exit 10 on the Turnpike.
Details are at www.nycroads.com
Michael Finfer
Bridgewater, NJ

[Patok]

Post by Andrew M. Saucci, Jr.
While I will always agree that making the New Jersey Turnpike I-95
is atrocious, I believe that officially, I-95 now extends around Trenton
back to I-195 and then to the Turnpike (a route no sane person would take).
When the interchange between I-95 in Pennsylvania and the Pennsylvania
Turnpike is complete, then I-95 will follow the Pennsylvaia Turnpike to the
Jersey Turnpike and the iron gate of tolls will close on another section of
Interstate highway. NYC Roads has not been updated in three years.
When I go that way, I usually follow US-1 to Trenton and get I-95
from there.

I tried that route once - never again! Now I take US-206 through
Princeton. It may come out to be overall slower than on US-1 (and is
certainly a little longer), but I don't have to deal with the constant
hassle of the traffic lights on US-1. (I drive it at night, though, and
that makes a difference. At day there is too much local traffic in
Princeton.)

[Andrew M. Saucci, Jr.]

My sister and brother-in-law just told me that they took that route
three weeks ago, and they liked it. "We didn't know!" Sigh.

Post by Andrew M. Saucci, Jr.
While I will always agree that making the New Jersey Turnpike I-95
is atrocious, I believe that officially, I-95 now extends around Trenton
back to I-195 and then to the Turnpike (a route no sane person would take).

[John Levine]

Post by Andrew M. Saucci, Jr.

Post by Andrew M. Saucci, Jr.
While I will always agree that making the New Jersey Turnpike I-95
is atrocious, I believe that officially, I-95 now extends around Trenton
back to I-195 and then to the Turnpike (a route no sane person would take).

My sister and brother-in-law just told me that they took that route
three weeks ago, and they liked it. "We didn't know!" Sigh.

If you've been stuck in traffic going 5 MPH on US 1 all the way from Trenton
to New Brunswick, you might not think going the long way around was all that
crazy.

Regards,
John Levine, ***@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly

[h***@bbs.cpcn.com]

Post by John Levine
If you've been stuck in traffic going 5 MPH on US 1 all the way from Trenton
to New Brunswick, you might not think going the long way around was all that
crazy.

Of course, that's better than 2½ MPH when the NJ Tpk is backed up.
Happens in either direction. The southbound backups I can understand
given the merge together. But northbound backups happen a lot, too.

Weekday rush hours and lunch times are rough on US 1, as are mid day
weekends (shopper's traffic). Weekend afternoons are rough on the NJ
Tpk, especially southbound.

US 1 isn't bad before say 10 a.m. on weekends. There are more lights,
but if one looks ahead and anticipates one can make most of them. But
on weekends after 11 am shopping traffic gets bad all the way up.

If US 1 or the Tpk are especially backed up with a really bad mess,
expect the other road to be congested, too. US 1 northbound was a
mess when the turnpike was jammed at a time when it should've been
wide open. It took several cycles to pass through the traffic lights
due to high volume of traffic.

[Steve Sobol]

Post by Paul S Wolf

Post by Kenny McCormack
Indeed. Although, I must point out, some (3 digit) highways are missing.
For example: 141& 151 in Wisconsin. Now, the intent may have been not to
include 3 digit routes, but note that some 3 digits are there (e.g., 281).

Also missing: 322 and 422 from Cleveland to the East Coast.

Well, was the focus on 2-digit routes? Because I think he nailed all the
major ones.

[John David Galt]

Post by Kenny McCormack
Indeed. Although, I must point out, some (3 digit) highways are missing.
For example: 141 & 151 in Wisconsin. Now, the intent may have been not to
include 3 digit routes, but note that some 3 digits are there (e.g., 281).

There are several other nits one could pick if one really wanted to.

* The last city on I-5 before the Mexican border is National City, not
San Ysidro.
* I-8 should extend west of I-5.
* I-19 and I-35 should not have bars across the south ends. Both cross the
border into Mexico.
* Despite the numbers, I-94 should be colored as a major route, while I-30,
I-45, and arguably I-85 should not.
* 3-digit routes that are longer than some included routes should be included.
For instance, I-210 and I-405 in metro Los Angeles are longer than I-19.
* The use of light gray is annoying. None of the I-routes are "historical",
and in several places enough gray routes are crowded together to make it hard
to follow which is which.
* It would be nice if they showed major changes in route, such as I-70's
interruption at Breezewood, PA; I-95 not being contiguous south of NYC; or
I-87 and I-90 being partly on the New York Thruway and partly free.

[Paul D. DeRocco]

Post by John David Galt
* The last city on I-5 before the Mexican border is National City, not
San Ysidro.

Technically, it's San Diego, because I-5 ends in San Ysidro which is a
neighborhood of San Diego.

[Oscar Voss]

Post by John David Galt
* I-19 and I-35 should not have bars across the south ends. Both cross the
border into Mexico.

Actually, both stop short of the Mexican border, though not by much.

--
Oscar Voss - ***@comcast.net - Arlington VA

my Hot Springs and Highways pages: http://home.comcast.net/~oscar.voss/
Hawaii Highways: http://www.hawaiihighways.com/

[Glen Labah]

Post by John David Galt
There are several other nits one could pick if one really wanted to.

It is very much a good effort, especially considering that the artist
can't be extremely familiar with every single little piece of highway on
the maps.

It doesn't say anywhere that I found what the thickness of the lines is
supposed to represent. Major routes vs minor ones? Good quality roads
vs. not so good ones?

I say this because US highway 101 is the same thickness for its entire
length, except when it gets south of Los Angeles. In parts of
California this highway is a fairly major route and really as well built
as any freeway. North of Olympia, Washington the line should be much
narrower as the route is a narrow two lane road with many curves and not
really changed much since it was paved some 70 years ago. State Route 3
from Tacoma going north is actually a much more developed road in terms
of being well graded and curves designed for much higher speed, and has
pretty much become the primary north-south road serving that area -
though not shown on the map at all. US 101 West across the top of the
Olympic Peninsula is reasonably good and even has freeway-like entrances
in a few places, until it gets to Port Angeles and then it slowly goes
back to a forgotten backwater style road. Once Highway 101 West becomes
Highway 101 South again on the coast, it has a few patches where it is a
reasonably fast road, but much of the rest of it should be a narrow
line, if that is what the line thickness means.

(Yes, I know that most US highways are odd numbered going north and
south, but US Highway 101 doesn't do that in part of Washington. The
part across the northern segment of the Olympic Peninsula is officially
labeled US Highway 101 East and US Highway 101 West on the signs next to
it. If you don't believe me, take a look at the Google street view
through Sequim, Washington and a few other places through there. I
don't know that this had to be done on any other US numbered highways,
but in this case it was because of the odd situation presented by the
segment north of Olympia.)

Also, the link between US Highway 30 and 99 at Longview, Washington is
not shown (there's a bridge over the river there). Instead, 30 doesn't
get anywhere near 99 until it gets into Portland, Oregon.

[spsffan]

Post by Glen Labah

Post by John David Galt
There are several other nits one could pick if one really wanted to.

It is very much a good effort, especially considering that the artist
can't be extremely familiar with every single little piece of highway on
the maps.
It doesn't say anywhere that I found what the thickness of the lines is
supposed to represent. Major routes vs minor ones? Good quality roads
vs. not so good ones?
I say this because US highway 101 is the same thickness for its entire
length, except when it gets south of Los Angeles. In parts of
California this highway is a fairly major route and really as well built
as any freeway. North of Olympia, Washington the line should be much
narrower as the route is a narrow two lane road with many curves and not
really changed much since it was paved some 70 years ago. State Route 3
from Tacoma going north is actually a much more developed road in terms
of being well graded and curves designed for much higher speed, and has
pretty much become the primary north-south road serving that area -
though not shown on the map at all. US 101 West across the top of the
Olympic Peninsula is reasonably good and even has freeway-like entrances
in a few places, until it gets to Port Angeles and then it slowly goes
back to a forgotten backwater style road. Once Highway 101 West becomes
Highway 101 South again on the coast, it has a few patches where it is a
reasonably fast road, but much of the rest of it should be a narrow
line, if that is what the line thickness means.

I think that the thin line is for highways that have been superseded by
(mostly) interstate routes. 101 south of LA was pretty much replaced by
I-5 when it was built. A few traces still exist. The same for 395
through Cajon Pass being replaced by I-15.

Post by Glen Labah
(Yes, I know that most US highways are odd numbered going north and
south, but US Highway 101 doesn't do that in part of Washington. The
part across the northern segment of the Olympic Peninsula is officially
labeled US Highway 101 East and US Highway 101 West on the signs next to
it. If you don't believe me, take a look at the Google street view
through Sequim, Washington and a few other places through there. I
don't know that this had to be done on any other US numbered highways,
but in this case it was because of the odd situation presented by the
segment north of Olympia.)

Yes. Not too many highways have a loop at one end! Of course, 101 is an
appropriate number for such a highway.

Post by Glen Labah
Also, the link between US Highway 30 and 99 at Longview, Washington is
not shown (there's a bridge over the river there). Instead, 30 doesn't
get anywhere near 99 until it gets into Portland, Oregon.

DAve

[Glen Labah]

Post by spsffan
I think that the thin line is for highways that have been superseded by
(mostly) interstate routes. 101 south of LA was pretty much replaced by
I-5 when it was built. A few traces still exist. The same for 395
through Cajon Pass being replaced by I-15.

That certainly makes sense as to what is meant by "Historical Routes"

Post by spsffan
Yes. Not too many highways have a loop at one end! Of course, 101 is an
appropriate number for such a highway.

That's pretty much why they had to have the "East" and "West"
designations on the North Coast area. If the highway ended in Port
Angeles or some other location on the North Coast it could be like so
many other highways that run east-west and keep their "North" and
"South" designations.

That extra 100 or so miles of south hook along Puget Sound means that
approaching Olympia on Interstate 5 or in Bremerton headed west you
could wind up with some very confusing signs, if you had to take 101
north to go south, and 101 south to go north. The "East" and "West"
designations on the North Coast helps divide those two north and south
sections of the highway.

Hindsight is always 20/20 of course, but it would have made a bit more
sense for highway 101 to follow the route that State Route 20 takes,
cross Admiralty Inlet at Port Townsend, and continue north on the route
20 takes to Anacortes or so. Take a look at the bridges at Deception
Pass State Park south of Anacortes, and tell me that doesn't belong on
highway 101 somewhere! The west side of Puget Sound has a lot of nice
features but it doesn't have the rugged coastline spirit that State
Route 20 has going north from Port Townsend to Anacortes.

[Nathan Perry]

Post by Glen Labah
It doesn't say anywhere that I found what the thickness of the lines is
supposed to represent. Major routes vs minor ones? Good quality roads
vs. not so good ones?

Existing vs. no-longer-existing ones.

Post by Glen Labah
I say this because US highway 101 is the same thickness for its entire
length, except when it gets south of Los Angeles. In parts of
California this highway is a fairly major route and really as well built
as any freeway.

So now you see why...US 101 was decommissioned south of LA; that's why
the line is thin. (And it's thick through the Olympic Peninsula because
US 101 still runs there. Doesn't matter the quality.)

[Gary V]

Post by Nathan Perry

Post by Glen Labah
It doesn't say anywhere that I found what the thickness of the lines is
supposed to represent.  Major routes vs minor ones?  Good quality roads
vs. not so good ones?

Existing vs. no-longer-existing ones.

Which is mentioned in the key at the bottom of the page.

[Kenny McCormack]

In article <gl4317-***@news.eternal-september.org>,
Glen Labah <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
...

Post by Glen Labah
It doesn't say anywhere that I found what the thickness of the lines is
supposed to represent. Major routes vs minor ones? Good quality roads
vs. not so good ones?

As another poster has noted, it says in the "legend" at the bottom left of
the map that the thin lines are "historical" routes.
...

Post by Glen Labah
(Yes, I know that most US highways are odd numbered going north and
south, but US Highway 101 doesn't do that in part of Washington. The
part across the northern segment of the Olympic Peninsula is officially
labeled US Highway 101 East and US Highway 101 West on the signs next to
it. If you don't believe me, take a look at the Google street view
through Sequim, Washington and a few other places through there. I
don't know that this had to be done on any other US numbered highways,
but in this case it was because of the odd situation presented by the
segment north of Olympia.)

In South Florida, in at least some contexts, 41 is referred to as East 41
and West 41.

(Now you have examples from two diametrically opposed points in the
[Continental] US)
--
Some of the more common characteristics of Asperger syndrome include:

* Inability to think in abstract ways (eg: puns, jokes, sarcasm, etc)
* Difficulties in empathising with others
* Problems with understanding another person's point of view
* Hampered conversational ability
* Problems with controlling feelings such as anger, depression
and anxiety
* Adherence to routines and schedules, and stress if expected routine
is disrupted
* Inability to manage appropriate social conduct
* Delayed understanding of sexual codes of conduct
* A narrow field of interests. For example a person with Asperger
syndrome may focus on learning all there is to know about
baseball statistics, politics or television shows.
* Anger and aggression when things do not happen as they want
* Sensitivity to criticism
* Eccentricity
* Behaviour varies from mildly unusual to quite aggressive
and difficult

[Gary V]

Post by Kenny McCormack
...

Post by Glen Labah
It doesn't say anywhere that I found what the thickness of the lines is
supposed to represent.  Major routes vs minor ones?  Good quality roads
vs. not so good ones?

As another poster has noted, it says in the "legend" at the bottom left of
the map that the thin lines are "historical" routes.
...

Post by Glen Labah
(Yes, I know that most US highways are odd numbered going north and
south, but US Highway 101 doesn't do that in part of Washington.  The
part across the northern segment of the Olympic Peninsula is officially
labeled US Highway 101 East and US Highway 101 West on the signs next to
it.  If you don't believe me, take a look at the Google street view
through Sequim, Washington and a few other places through there.  I
don't know that this had to be done on any other US numbered highways,
but in this case it was because of the odd situation presented by the
segment north of Olympia.)

In South Florida, in at least some contexts, 41 is referred to as East 41
and West 41.
(Now you have examples from two diametrically opposed points in the
[Continental] US)

More examples:
-- I-69 switches from N/S to E/W at Lansing
-- as I recall, US 321 is signed NB in both approaches to
Elizabethton, TN
-- US 24 is labeled N/S in MI, E/W in OH and IN
-- US 68 may also have directional changes in OH

[John Levine]

I don't know that this had to be done on any other US numbered highways,

US 1 runs generally N/S but runs E/W in CT and is generally signposted
that way.

US 4 runs E/W through VT and NH, then turns left and runs north-south
in NY.

US 9 runs N/S in NY and NJ, but the piece in DE runs E/W.

What others are there?

R's,
John

[Robert Bonomi]

Post by John Levine
What others are there?

Does Interstate 380 -- N/S between Iowa City and Waterloo IA count?

Interstate 94 -- N/S between South Holla IL, and Milwaukee WI?

Interstate 90 -- N/S between Rockford IL, and Madison, WI?

Interstate 235 -- metro Des Moines, IA, it runs far further E/W than N/S.

[Stephen Sprunk]

Post by Robert Bonomi

Post by John Levine
What others are there?

Does Interstate 380 -- N/S between Iowa City and Waterloo IA count?
Interstate 94 -- N/S between South Holla IL, and Milwaukee WI?
Interstate 90 -- N/S between Rockford IL, and Madison, WI?
Interstate 235 -- metro Des Moines, IA, it runs far further E/W than N/S.

Examples abound on three-digit highways, eg. IH-635 in Dallas, IH-610 in
Houston and IH-410 in San Antonio are all posted N/S in some places and
E/W in others. I thought that was the norm for "loops". Examples of
the same on (one- or) two-digit highways are more interesting.

I've seen one Interstate (I-440 in Raleigh?) that was posted as "Inner
Loop" (clockwise) and "Outer Loop" (counter-clockwise).

S

[Robert Bonomi]

Post by Stephen Sprunk

Post by Robert Bonomi

Post by John Levine
What others are there?

Does Interstate 380 -- N/S between Iowa City and Waterloo IA count?
Interstate 94 -- N/S between South Holla IL, and Milwaukee WI?
Interstate 90 -- N/S between Rockford IL, and Madison, WI?
Interstate 235 -- metro Des Moines, IA, it runs far further E/W than N/S.

Examples abound on three-digit highways, eg. IH-635 in Dallas, IH-610 in
Houston and IH-410 in San Antonio are all posted N/S in some places and
E/W in others. I thought that was the norm for "loops". Examples of
the same on (one- or) two-digit highways are more interesting.

I'll note that the above-cited 380 is not a 'loop' by any rational definition.

I'm not sure why the 'through town' route in Des Moines was given the N/S
route numbering. Maybe the E/W ('x80') alternatives (both of them, that is)
were all already in use.

[Stephen Sprunk]

Post by Robert Bonomi

Post by Stephen Sprunk

Post by Robert Bonomi

Post by John Levine
What others are there?

Does Interstate 380 -- N/S between Iowa City and Waterloo IA count?
Interstate 94 -- N/S between South Holla IL, and Milwaukee WI?
Interstate 90 -- N/S between Rockford IL, and Madison, WI?
Interstate 235 -- metro Des Moines, IA, it runs far further E/W than N/S.

Examples abound on three-digit highways, eg. IH-635 in Dallas, IH-610 in
Houston and IH-410 in San Antonio are all posted N/S in some places and
E/W in others. I thought that was the norm for "loops". Examples of
the same on (one- or) two-digit highways are more interesting.

I'll note that the above-cited 380 is not a 'loop' by any rational definition.

No, it's a "spur". Given the alignment, I'd expect it to be N/S the
entire way, not changing between N/S and E/W.

Post by Robert Bonomi
I'm not sure why the 'through town' route in Des Moines was given the N/S
route numbering.

The first digit of three-digit highway numbers does _not_ denote
direction; it denotes whether they're loops/bypasses (even) or spurs
(odd). Nor do the latter two digits, which only indicate the parent
highway.

As a "bypass" of I-35, I-235 would logically have the same official
direction as I-35; that way, a traveler on I-235 who uses the bypass and
rejoins I-35 will keep going the "same" direction the entire time. If
they had signed the longer leg as E/W and changed at the hard curve,
though, I doubt many folks would have been confused.

Post by Robert Bonomi
Maybe the E/W ('x80') alternatives (both of them, that is)
were all already in use.

Nope. However, two other loops/bypasses off I-80 use up two of IA's
four numbers, whereas there are no others off I-35, so it would make
sense to burn an I-x35 number and reserve the other two I-x80 numbers
for elsewhere in the state.

S

[Jesus Christ]

US 52 and 62.

[Sancho Panza]

Post by Stephen Sprunk

Post by Robert Bonomi

Post by Stephen Sprunk

Post by Robert Bonomi

Post by John Levine
What others are there?

Does Interstate 380 -- N/S between Iowa City and Waterloo IA count?
Interstate 94 -- N/S between South Holla IL, and Milwaukee WI?
Interstate 90 -- N/S between Rockford IL, and Madison, WI?
Interstate 235 -- metro Des Moines, IA, it runs far further E/W than N/S.

Examples abound on three-digit highways, eg. IH-635 in Dallas, IH-610 in
Houston and IH-410 in San Antonio are all posted N/S in some places and
E/W in others. I thought that was the norm for "loops". Examples of
the same on (one- or) two-digit highways are more interesting.

I'll note that the above-cited 380 is not a 'loop' by any rational definition.

No, it's a "spur". Given the alignment, I'd expect it to be N/S the
entire way, not changing between N/S and E/W.

Post by Robert Bonomi
I'm not sure why the 'through town' route in Des Moines was given the N/S
route numbering.

The first digit of three-digit highway numbers does _not_ denote
direction; it denotes whether they're loops/bypasses (even) or spurs
(odd). Nor do the latter two digits, which only indicate the parent
highway.
As a "bypass" of I-35, I-235 would logically have the same official
direction as I-35; that way, a traveler on I-235 who uses the bypass and
rejoins I-35 will keep going the "same" direction the entire time.

Not for I-495 in New Jersey, one of the most heavily used roads around.

[Michael Moroney]

Post by Sancho Panza

Post by Stephen Sprunk
The first digit of three-digit highway numbers does _not_ denote
direction; it denotes whether they're loops/bypasses (even) or spurs
(odd). Nor do the latter two digits, which only indicate the parent
highway.
As a "bypass" of I-35, I-235 would logically have the same official
direction as I-35; that way, a traveler on I-235 who uses the bypass and
rejoins I-35 will keep going the "same" direction the entire time.

Not for I-495 in New Jersey, one of the most heavily used roads around.

I-495 is one of the big examples of the numbering rules being violated.
If built as planned (NJ through NYC east through Long Island, parts were
cancelled), it would have been a spur, and should have had an odd
first digit. As it is now, I-495 in New York doesn't even connect to
I-95. (I think Route 495 is now a state route in New Jersey, not an
interstate)

I've heard stories of grand plans for the eastern end to cross
Long Island Sound into Connecticut and reconnect to I-95 there, in which
case the number would be correct (a loop or bypass off of I-95), but that
was probably never more than a pipe dream.

[Robert Bonomi]

Post by Stephen Sprunk

Post by Robert Bonomi

Post by Stephen Sprunk

Post by Robert Bonomi

Post by John Levine
What others are there?

Does Interstate 380 -- N/S between Iowa City and Waterloo IA count?
Interstate 94 -- N/S between South Holla IL, and Milwaukee WI?
Interstate 90 -- N/S between Rockford IL, and Madison, WI?
Interstate 235 -- metro Des Moines, IA, it runs far further E/W than N/S.

Examples abound on three-digit highways, eg. IH-635 in Dallas, IH-610 in
Houston and IH-410 in San Antonio are all posted N/S in some places and
E/W in others. I thought that was the norm for "loops". Examples of
the same on (one- or) two-digit highways are more interesting.

I'll note that the above-cited 380 is not a 'loop' by any rational definition.

No, it's a "spur". Given the alignment, I'd expect it to be N/S the
entire way, not changing between N/S and E/W.

Post by Robert Bonomi
I'm not sure why the 'through town' route in Des Moines was given the N/S
route numbering.

The first digit of three-digit highway numbers does _not_ denote
direction; it denotes whether they're loops/bypasses (even) or spurs
(odd).

"No shit, sherlock" applies.

Post by Stephen Sprunk
Nor do the latter two digits, which only indicate the parent
highway.

And the numbering of the parent highway, does of course, have a directional
component to it.

There was the choice of a N/S-numbered parent, or an E/W-numbered parent.

The E/W parent carries more traffic, and the through-town loop is













The E/W parent carries more traffic, and the through-town loop is

Post by Stephen Sprunk
As a "bypass" of I-35, I-235 would logically have the same official
direction as I-35; that way, a traveler on I-235 who uses the bypass and
rejoins I-35 will keep going the "same" direction the entire time. If
they had signed the longer leg as E/W and changed at the hard curve,
though, I doubt many folks would have been confused.

Post by Robert Bonomi
Maybe the E/W ('x80') alternatives (both of them, that is)
were all already in use.

Nope. However, two other loops/bypasses off I-80 use up two of IA's
four numbers,

Make that at least -three- of the four. _without- consideration that
2xx, and 4xx, were supposed to designate 'through town' routes that
connected to the main route on both ends, while 6xx and 8xx, were
supposed to designate doubly connected 'bypasses' _around_ a metro area.

280 is in use in the Quad Cities,
680 is a bypass around Council bluffs
480 is in use 'in town' in Omaha/Council bluffs.
880 is supposedly reserved for something that hasn't been built.

I don't have a good handle on _when_ the various x80 routes were constructed.

I know that 680 predates 235. I drove on 680 while 235 was being built. ;)

[Stephen Sprunk]

Post by Robert Bonomi

Post by Stephen Sprunk

Post by Robert Bonomi
Maybe the E/W ('x80') alternatives (both of them, that is)
were all already in use.

Nope. However, two other loops/bypasses off I-80 use up two of IA's
four numbers,

Make that at least -three- of the four.

Ah, I missed the short bit of I-480 that's in IA.

Post by Robert Bonomi
2xx, and 4xx, were supposed to designate 'through town' routes that
connected to the main route on both ends, while 6xx and 8xx, were
supposed to designate doubly connected 'bypasses' _around_ a metro area.

Interesting; I've never seen that explanation. I have noticed that
states apparently disagree on terminology, though.

Post by Robert Bonomi
280 is in use in the Quad Cities,
680 is a bypass around Council bluffs
480 is in use 'in town' in Omaha/Council bluffs.

In light of the above, I'll point out that I-480 does _not_ connect to
I-80 on both ends.

Post by Robert Bonomi
880 is supposedly reserved for something that hasn't been built.

That happened a lot--and lots of highways got numbers they "shouldn't"
have because states didn't have enough of the "right" numbers or to make
things easier for drivers to understand.

Post by Robert Bonomi
I don't have a good handle on _when_ the various x80 routes were constructed.

http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/i280.html#280ia
http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/i380.html#380ia
http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/i480.html#480ia
http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/i680.html#680ia

Post by Robert Bonomi
I know that 680 predates 235. I drove on 680 while 235 was being built. ;)

There's some interesting history about the numbering of I-235;
apparently it was originally supposed to be dual-signed as I-380:
http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/ix35.html#235ia

S

[Robert Heller]

Post by Robert Bonomi

Post by Stephen Sprunk

Post by Robert Bonomi

Post by John Levine
What others are there?

Does Interstate 380 -- N/S between Iowa City and Waterloo IA count?
Interstate 94 -- N/S between South Holla IL, and Milwaukee WI?
Interstate 90 -- N/S between Rockford IL, and Madison, WI?
Interstate 235 -- metro Des Moines, IA, it runs far further E/W than N/S.

Examples abound on three-digit highways, eg. IH-635 in Dallas, IH-610 in
Houston and IH-410 in San Antonio are all posted N/S in some places and
E/W in others. I thought that was the norm for "loops". Examples of
the same on (one- or) two-digit highways are more interesting.

I'll note that the above-cited 380 is not a 'loop' by any rational definition.
I'm not sure why the 'through town' route in Des Moines was given the N/S
route numbering. Maybe the E/W ('x80') alternatives (both of them, that is)
were all already in use.

Three digit Interstates Highways has some relation to the Interstate
Highway with the number of the lower two digits. The upper digit
(generally) indicates a bypass route (even) or through town (odd).

380 == through / into town off Interstate 80.

235 == bypass route off Interstate 35.

[Chuck Charlton]

Post by Robert Heller
Three digit Interstates Highways has some relation to the Interstate
Highway with the number of the lower two digits. The upper digit
(generally) indicates a bypass route (even) or through town (odd).

For a stretch of several miles in Berkeley, California the southbound
lanes of the Eastshore Freeway are simultaneously identified as I-80
East and I-580 West. The northbound lanes are the opposite, of course.

Locals find this amusing, but visitors do not.

Post by Robert Heller
380 == through / into town off Interstate 80.

I-380 is also the number of the spur that connects the San Francisco
airport with I-280. It does not connect with I-80 at all. So you had
me confused for a minute there.

[Oscar Voss]

Post by Stephen Sprunk
I've seen one Interstate (I-440 in Raleigh?) that was posted as "Inner
Loop" (clockwise) and "Outer Loop" (counter-clockwise).

That one, and I-495 around Washington, D.C. (where radio traffic reports
also routinely use those terms).

--
Oscar Voss - ***@comcast.net - Arlington VA

my Hot Springs and Highways pages: http://home.comcast.net/~oscar.voss/
Hawaii Highways: http://www.hawaiihighways.com/

[Kenny McCormack]

Post by Oscar Voss

Post by Stephen Sprunk
I've seen one Interstate (I-440 in Raleigh?) that was posted as "Inner
Loop" (clockwise) and "Outer Loop" (counter-clockwise).

That one, and I-495 around Washington, D.C. (where radio traffic reports
also routinely use those terms).

This is a very good thing, by the way. I've seen it both in DC and Raleigh
and it is very easy to visualize and consistent - much better than hacking
east/west/north/south designations.

Is it present anywhere else (other than the two cities noted above) ?

[Steve Sobol]

Post by Stephen Sprunk
Examples abound on three-digit highways

But I never got the impression that the EastWest/NorthSouth rules were
all that meaningful for 3DI's.

[Robert Heller]

Post by Steve Sobol

Post by Stephen Sprunk
Examples abound on three-digit highways

But I never got the impression that the EastWest/NorthSouth rules were
all that meaningful for 3DI's.

Right. Interstates highways with 3 digit numbers are 'special' -- they
are spur and bypass routes attached to the 1 and 2 digit numbered
Interstate highways. These spurs and bypasses almost by design will
violate the EastWest/NorthSouth rule -- as spurs and bypasses, how can
then not!

[Stephen Sprunk]

Post by Steve Sobol

Post by Stephen Sprunk
Examples abound on three-digit highways

But I never got the impression that the EastWest/NorthSouth rules were
all that meaningful for 3DI's.

They're not; they only apply to 2DIs. However, I was referring to roads
that _change_ their signed direction, i.e. some parts are E/W and other
parts are N/S.

S

[Michael Moroney]

Post by Stephen Sprunk

Post by Steve Sobol

Post by Stephen Sprunk
Examples abound on three-digit highways

But I never got the impression that the EastWest/NorthSouth rules were
all that meaningful for 3DI's.

They're not; they only apply to 2DIs. However, I was referring to roads
that _change_ their signed direction, i.e. some parts are E/W and other
parts are N/S.

The lower two digits of a 3di are the parent route. All the odd-even
rule tells you about 3di's are whether the parent route is N-S or E-W.
Spurs (odd first digit) in particular tend to go off at a large angle
to the main route so probably would seem to violate the odd-even rule
more often than not. Which is OK since it's not a rule that applies to
them.

[Gary V]

Post by Steve Sobol

Post by Stephen Sprunk
Examples abound on three-digit highways

But I never got the impression that the EastWest/NorthSouth rules were
all that meaningful for 3DI's.

They're not; they only apply to 2DIs.  However, I was referring to roads
that _change_ their signed direction, i.e. some parts are E/W and other
parts are N/S.

The lower two digits of a 3di are the parent route.  All the odd-even
rule tells you about 3di's are whether the parent route is N-S or E-W.
Spurs (odd first digit) in particular tend to go off at a large angle
to the main route so probably would seem to violate the odd-even rule
more often than not.  Which is OK since it's not a rule that applies to
them.

And to confound things more, I-196 changes from N/S to E/W direction
at Holland.

[george conklin]

Post by Steve Sobol

Post by Stephen Sprunk
Examples abound on three-digit highways

But I never got the impression that the EastWest/NorthSouth rules were
all that meaningful for 3DI's.
--
Steve Sobol - Programming/WebDev/IT Support

Well, we could do what the British and Indians (Hindustanis) do with trains:
go North? Up. South, Down. So if a train can be up and down, why can't
roads?

[John Levine]

Post by george conklin
go North? Up. South, Down. So if a train can be up and down, why can't
roads?

Hmmn, I gather you've never been to the UK.

In the UK, the up train goes toward London, the down train away from
London. This usually but not always means that the up train goes
south and the down train goes north.

R's,
John

[Charles Ellson]

Post by John Levine

Post by george conklin
go North? Up. South, Down. So if a train can be up and down, why can't
roads?

Hmmn, I gather you've never been to the UK.
In the UK,

England

Post by John Levine
the up train goes toward London, the down train away from
London.

Except on London Underground where it goes North, South, East or West.

In Scotland the Up train goes to Edinburgh or Glasgow if it is not on
the West Coast or East Coast main lines.

Post by John Levine
This usually but not always means that the up train goes
south and the down train goes north.

and then there are Valleys trains in Wales.
see e.g.:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_directions

[george conklin]

Post by John Levine

Post by george conklin
go North? Up. South, Down. So if a train can be up and down, why can't
roads?

Hmmn, I gather you've never been to the UK.
In the UK, the up train goes toward London, the down train away from
London. This usually but not always means that the up train goes
south and the down train goes north.
R's,

Actually I have, but that is besides the point. I was making reference
mostly to India, where the same system is in play.

[Kenny McCormack]

Post by Steve Sobol

Post by Stephen Sprunk
Examples abound on three-digit highways

But I never got the impression that the EastWest/NorthSouth rules were
all that meaningful for 3DI's.

Correct.

[H.B. Elkins]

Post by John Levine

I don't know that this had to be done on any other US numbered highways,

US 1 runs generally N/S but runs E/W in CT and is generally signposted
that way.
US 4 runs E/W through VT and NH, then turns left and runs north-south
in NY.
US 9 runs N/S in NY and NJ, but the piece in DE runs E/W.
What others are there?

US 33 is signed E-W in VA and WV (and OH too, I think) and N/S in Indiana

US 35 is signed N-S in WV and IN, but E-W in OH.

US 42 is signed E-W in KY but N-S in OH.

US 52 is signed E-W in most of the midwest states it runs through, but N-S in
the southeast states.

US 68 is signed E-W in KY but N-S in OH.

US 250 is signed E-W in VA but N-S in WV.

[Nobody]

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 10:30:44 -0800 (PST), Gary V

Post by Gary V

Post by Kenny McCormack
...

Post by Glen Labah
It doesn't say anywhere that I found what the thickness of the lines is
supposed to represent.  Major routes vs minor ones?  Good quality roads
vs. not so good ones?

As another poster has noted, it says in the "legend" at the bottom left of
the map that the thin lines are "historical" routes.
...

Post by Glen Labah
(Yes, I know that most US highways are odd numbered going north and
south, but US Highway 101 doesn't do that in part of Washington.  The
part across the northern segment of the Olympic Peninsula is officially
labeled US Highway 101 East and US Highway 101 West on the signs next to
it.  If you don't believe me, take a look at the Google street view
through Sequim, Washington and a few other places through there.  I
don't know that this had to be done on any other US numbered highways,
but in this case it was because of the odd situation presented by the
segment north of Olympia.)

In South Florida, in at least some contexts, 41 is referred to as East 41
and West 41.
(Now you have examples from two diametrically opposed points in the
[Continental] US)

-- I-69 switches from N/S to E/W at Lansing
-- as I recall, US 321 is signed NB in both approaches to
Elizabethton, TN
-- US 24 is labeled N/S in MI, E/W in OH and IN
-- US 68 may also have directional changes in OH

But I'd agree with Glen that US 101 around the Olympic Peninsula has
to be the only highway that doubles back on itself, and not just in a
(temporary) situation to follow an estuary or mountain pass.

From, say about Sequim/Blyn/Gardiner towards Olympia, you're driving
compass south to the northern "end" of the designated road.

Though that's not the northern-most point.

[Paul D. DeRocco]

Post by Nobody
But I'd agree with Glen that US 101 around the Olympic Peninsula has
to be the only highway that doubles back on itself, and not just in a
(temporary) situation to follow an estuary or mountain pass.

Well, there's the smaller case of US-6 on Cape Cod, although they always
called it US-6 East headed toward P'town, even where it had curved all the
way around to the west.

(Annoyingly, they've decomissioned US-6 in P'town, so that it now stops at
the Truro border, leaving only Historic US-6 signage in P'town.)

[Steve Sobol]

In article <l4adnQ75-***@earthlink.com>, Paul D.
DeRocco says...

Post by Paul D. DeRocco
(Annoyingly, they've decomissioned US-6 in P'town, so that it now stops at
the Truro border, leaving only Historic US-6 signage in P'town.)

What is the point of leaving US-6 intact on the rest of Cape Cod?

[Nathan Perry]

Post by Steve Sobol
DeRocco says...

Post by Paul D. DeRocco
(Annoyingly, they've decomissioned US-6 in P'town, so that it now

stops at

Post by Paul D. DeRocco
the Truro border, leaving only Historic US-6 signage in P'town.)

What is the point of leaving US-6 intact on the rest of Cape Cod?

Well seeing as how it's the main highway down the peninsula, it would
be akin to, say, leaving I-495 intact through Long Island. :-)

[Paul D. DeRocco]

Post by Steve Sobol
What is the point of leaving US-6 intact on the rest of Cape Cod?

My question is what's the point of not leaving US-6 signed normally through
P'town. The problem is that the numbering of roads has multiple, sometimes
conflicting, purposes. We treat them as showing us where to drive, while
"they" treat them as indicating ownership or responsibility. When that piece
of road was turned over by the state to the town, I guess they couldn't call
it US-6 any more, even though the change in ownership was completely
irrelevant to the people who drive on the road and read the signs.

It's particularly annoying since it is the second longest numbered route in
the country (used to be first until 1963), and it just got a few miles
shorter.

[Andrew M. Saucci, Jr.]

In New York State, many non-state highways are signed as state
touring routes, while many state highways are signed only as "secret"
reference routes. NY 24, for example, is discontinuous as a state-maintained
highway through Hempstead, as is evidenced by the yellow Nassau County
traffic signals, and is duly noted in state highway law as such, but it is
continuously signed as NY 24 (and also has state reference markers). In
Suffolk, the western end of the eastern section of the road signed as NY 24
is county-maintained. NY 27 through East Hampton is actually
county-maintained. I believe NY 206 near Roscoe is another example of a
county-maintained highway with state touring route markers. They should do
the same for US-6. It's just a shield-- they could post a sign that reads
"State maintenance begins/ends here" if they need to mark their territory
(which actually is important too-- if someone is injured driving over a bad
pothole, he may need to know who to sue). I have been in states with such
signs, so that could work too.

Post by Paul D. DeRocco

Post by Steve Sobol
What is the point of leaving US-6 intact on the rest of Cape Cod?

My question is what's the point of not leaving US-6 signed normally
through P'town. The problem is that the numbering of roads has multiple,
sometimes conflicting, purposes. We treat them as showing us where to
drive, while "they" treat them as indicating ownership or responsibility.
When that piece of road was turned over by the state to the town, I guess
they couldn't call it US-6 any more, even though the change in ownership
was completely irrelevant to the people who drive on the road and read the
signs.
It's particularly annoying since it is the second longest numbered route
in the country (used to be first until 1963), and it just got a few miles
shorter.
--
Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco

[Michael Moroney]

Post by Andrew M. Saucci, Jr.
county-maintained. I believe NY 206 near Roscoe is another example of a
county-maintained highway with state touring route markers. They should do
the same for US-6. It's just a shield-- they could post a sign that reads
"State maintenance begins/ends here" if they need to mark their territory
(which actually is important too-- if someone is injured driving over a bad
pothole, he may need to know who to sue). I have been in states with such
signs, so that could work too.

Massachusetts already does that all the time with state numbered highways.
Many sections of state numbered highways are maintained by the town or
city they are in. No reason not to do the same with that section of US 6,
I wonder if there aren't already sections of other US routes in Mass. that
are maintained by the town they are in (perhaps US 202 or US 44?)

[Paul D. DeRocco]

Post by Kenny McCormack
Indeed. Although, I must point out, some (3 digit) highways are missing.
For example: 141 & 151 in Wisconsin. Now, the intent may have been not to
include 3 digit routes, but note that some 3 digits are there (e.g., 281).

Leaving out US-395 would have been inexcusable, since it's more important
than most two-digit routes. Since it ran almost border to border, I've
wondered why it wasn't called US-97, and why the road north from Weed wasn't
given three digits. Must have something to do with the order in which they
were built.

[h***@bbs.cpcn.com]

Post by Elmer
There's more stuff like this on his blog:http://www.cambooth.net/

I like what he did with the DC subway map to make it somewhat more
geographic than schematic.