Discussion:
Here's a problem for engineers: How to make a paper bike
(too old to reply)
TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
2012-04-09 23:12:22 UTC
Permalink
(This topic is loosely inspired by a program I heard on NPR last
evening)

The topic was INNOVATION. They throw lots of problems at engineers and
they must come up with the solution. One problem was how to make a
bike out of paper. They must be creative and "join the dots," a phrase
the kept popping up. The engineers were celebrated as the smartest
people on Earth and they spoke about America being the mecca for them.
I really don't know how the paper bike was made, but I have another
pressing problem for them, one that may radically change the mode of
transportation in America.

My question is how to make a bike go from one side of town to the
other. Their approach, so far, has been to do a little stretch of bike
lane here and there, but they never connect them. Get it? They never
connect the dots!

I've seen bamboo bikes coming out of Africa, so they are probably the
best engineers. They may also use the bicycle more than Americans, so
they are the smartest. By contrast, bike facilities and pedestrian
facilities in my area are the dumbest in the world. You know why? Just
because our engineers are doing a 9 to 5 job and because our
politicians don't expect them to find solutions for pedestrians and
cyclists.

This is a motto for engineers:

"THE REVOLUTION IS ABOUT SOLUTIONS"


------------------------------------------------------------------

http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION
TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
2012-04-09 23:41:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
My question is how to make a bike go from one side of town to the
other. Their approach, so far, has been to do a little stretch of bike
lane here and there, but they never connect them. Get it? They never
connect the dots!
How to make a bike go from one side of town to another? Learn to ride
your bike as a legitimate vehicle on ordinary roads. It's what truly
competent riders do.
By waiting for your fantasy bike lane world, you're perpetuating
dominance by motorists. Quit whining and learn to ride in _this_ world.
http://cyclingsavvy.org/2011/05/i-am-no-road-warrior/
I think your career as a civil engineer would be doomed. I just have
to throw this "problem" at you:

"Santa Cruz is fairly high on the bicycle friendly city list. Yet,
there are few bicycles found on the city streets. That's because no
matter how the streets are painted, bicycle riding on the shared city
streets is still dangerous."
His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
2012-04-10 00:31:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
My question is how to make a bike go from one side of town to the
other. Their approach, so far, has been to do a little stretch of bike
lane here and there, but they never connect them. Get it? They never
connect the dots!
How to make a bike go from one side of town to another? Learn to ride
your bike as a legitimate vehicle on ordinary roads. It's what truly
competent riders do.
I do it. You do it. A *few* others do it. Good for us, but wouldn't
it be even better for us if *many* others did it, and if everybody
felt like they could do it?
By waiting for your fantasy bike lane world, you're perpetuating
dominance by motorists. Quit whining and learn to ride in _this_ world.
This is how you advocate?
http://cyclingsavvy.org/2011/05/i-am-no-road-warrior/
Well, the author begins by suggesting that "... intact males... "
equates to intimidating. Hmmm...
Then she offers a picture of an absolutely lovely, absolutely traffic-
free road that absolutely beckons, "[Ride Meeeee... ]", and says, "...
bicycling on this street looked frightening to me... "
Then she took a class that got her over her fear ala the Krygowski
method. I have consistently said there's nothing wrong with that for
those who need it. That got her out on her bike. Keep up the good
work, Frank (though in TM's case I think these efforts may be wasted,
I think you know this, and I think you mostly just want to shut him
up.)
That's the dilemma here: Knowledge or Animal Instincts. I suggest that
you both enroll in bike safety programs and animal training. I think
Dog's Whisperer is particularly important, but when you have so many
animals loose, you risk yourself in harm's way.

http://www.cesarsway.com/
His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
2012-04-10 04:03:04 UTC
Permalink
On Apr 9, 5:28 pm, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
Post by His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
Post by TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
My question is how to make a bike go from one side of town to the
other. Their approach, so far, has been to do a little stretch of bike
lane here and there, but they never connect them. Get it? They never
connect the dots!
How to make a bike go from one side of town to another? Learn to ride
your bike as a legitimate vehicle on ordinary roads. It's what truly
competent riders do.
I do it. You do it. A *few* others do it. Good for us, but wouldn't
it be even better for us if *many* others did it, and if everybody
felt like they could do it?
By waiting for your fantasy bike lane world, you're perpetuating
dominance by motorists. Quit whining and learn to ride in _this_ world.
This is how you advocate?
http://cyclingsavvy.org/2011/05/i-am-no-road-warrior/
Well, the author begins by suggesting that "... intact males... "
equates to intimidating. Hmmm...
Then she offers a picture of an absolutely lovely, absolutely traffic-
free road that absolutely beckons, "[Ride Meeeee... ]", and says, "...
bicycling on this street looked frightening to me... "
Then she took a class that got her over her fear ala the Krygowski
method. I have consistently said there's nothing wrong with that for
those who need it. That got her out on her bike. Keep up the good
work, Frank (though in TM's case I think these efforts may be wasted,
I think you know this, and I think you mostly just want to shut him
up.)
That's the dilemma here: Knowledge or Animal Instincts. I suggest that
you both enroll in bike safety programs and animal training.
Heh. Do you suppose the "bike safety program" will successfully train
this animal?
I meant we must train drivers before we can feel safe. But doesn't
hurt that we undergo some training ourselves.
Post by His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
I think
Dog's Whisperer is particularly important, but when you have so many
animals loose, you risk yourself in harm's way.
Animals are okay (that all I am, after all). I used to work in a
County Health Dept office - the one that handles dog bite incidents.
They're all "good dogs".
Post by His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
http://www.cesarsway.com/
From Cesar's page:

Can’t we all just get along?

Bill, our cat, recently returned home with a freshly-caught baby
rabbit in his mouth. Wilbur, our house-rabbit, sat in his pen about
three feet away, watching while Bill proceeded to eat the bunny,
leaving only the ears and tail.

I hollered at Bill. Threw pebbles. Tried to spare Wilbur the sight of
one of his own on Bill’s proverbial dinner plate. But, in typical
feline fashion, Bill savored every bite and when he was done,
stretched out beside Wilbur’s pen and washed his whiskers. The message
from Bill seemed clear: Better sleep with one eye open, Bunny-Boy.

http://www.cesarsway.com/dogbehavior/territorial/Cant-we-just-get-along

***

I do not trust drivers.
His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
2012-04-10 13:27:19 UTC
Permalink
"TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
ELEVATED BIKEWAYS ? there's an earth effective idea.
Like flying cars !
I'm traveling thru Utah.....forest to sagebrush....hey guys where'the grass, replanted trees, topsoil ?
why not even ferrous oxide to snot on.
I'd challenge engineers to design a pedal airplane.
It's been done.
Really? I want one!

Maybe engineers are told to make a paper bike to make sure they follow
stupid commands. A flying bike makes sense.
His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
2012-04-10 13:29:05 UTC
Permalink
"TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
ELEVATED BIKEWAYS ? there's an earth effective idea.
Like flying cars !
I'm traveling thru Utah.....forest to sagebrush....hey guys where'the grass, replanted trees, topsoil ?
why not even ferrous oxide to snot on.
I'd challenge engineers to design a pedal airplane.
It's been done.
Really? I want one!

Maybe engineers are told to make a paper bike to make sure they follow
stupid commands. A flying bike makes sense.
TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
2012-04-10 19:39:22 UTC
Permalink
ELEVATED BIKEWAYS ? there's an earth effective idea.
Like flying cars !
I'm traveling thru Utah.....forest to sagebrush....hey guys where'the grass, replanted trees, topsoil ?
why not even ferrous oxide to snot on.
I'd challenge engineers to design a pedal airplane.
http://www.humanpoweredflying.propdesigner.co.uk/assets/images/CONDOR...
and later successful revision
http://papercastlepress.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Gossamer_...
How about making them in China and marketing them through Walmart?

Here's the starting point...

Loading Image...

That's what I'm talking about, practical stuff. Something even a kid
can use. Good challenge for our traffic engineers. It would avoid the
need for bike facilities and it won't slow down those crazy drivers.
TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
2012-04-11 00:36:08 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 07:57:12 -0700 (PDT), "TibetanMonkey, the Beach
The evidence is all around me. "Bike facilities" are not only stupid,
they are criminal. If I were an engineer in charge of approving those,
I'd commit suicide.
In the Peoples Republic of Santa Cruz (county), we have an 11 member
bicycle transportation advisory committee. I don't know everyone on
the committee but of those that I recognize, none are engineers.
<http://sccrtc.org/about/committee-rosters/bicycle-committee/>
The closest approximation are environmental designers. Most are
transportation advocates and all are cyclists.
When presented with the possibility of installing a bicycle lane,
storage locker, bicycle rack, bike trail, or other grand scheme, there
are state and local codes and guidelines that almost totally determine
<http://sccrtc.org/services/bike/>
under "Bicycle Facility Planning and Design Guidelines".
Occasionally, someone tries to do something creative. The effort
necessary to break or bend the rules and "guidelines" are monumental
and usually do not succeed. The result is considerable uniformity in
the construction and design of bicycle facilities. ...
... which, generally speaking, is a good thing. "Innovation" in
transportation facility design should be viewed with suspicion. Most
roadway designs have developed through a process involving a hundred
years of careful deliberation and evaluation. They're based on
fundamental facts like these: humans have finite reaction times; they
can see in the forward direction much better than they can see by
craning their necks backwards to the right; while in a moving vehicle,
its difficult to instantly figure out a wildly different road
configuration; and so on.
There are fundamental principles that have arisen from such practical
considerations - things like: All vehicles going the same direction
should be on the same side of the road. Faster vehicles should pass
slower ones on the side closest to the road's center. Turns at
intersections should be made from the portion of the lane that minimizes
crossing conflicts. Road users have "right of way" and aren't normally
required to abandon the road for the convenience of others going the
same direction... and so on.
Enforce passing on the outside lane only, place SPEED CAMERAS
throughout communities and BAN CELL PHONES before you make people come
out. Ah, don't forget to place the liability on the driver. Let the
driver worry about cyclists and pedestrians.

In other words, TAME TRAFFIC.
TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
2012-04-11 00:50:12 UTC
Permalink
"TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
ELEVATED BIKEWAYS ? there's an earth effective idea.
Like flying cars !
I'm traveling thru Utah.....forest to sagebrush....hey guys where'the grass, replanted trees, topsoil ?
why not even ferrous oxide to snot on.
I'd challenge engineers to design a pedal airplane.
You really should do some reading before doing so much posting. As in
this case, you frequently make proclamations (or as in this case,
challenges) with absolutely no background knowledge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gossamer_Condor
You're 35 years behind.
My point is not to fly a bike but to put the engineers to shame.
You must realize that.
My point is you should learn a little before you post.
--
- Frank Krygowski
The evidence is all around me. "Bike facilities" are not only stupid,
they are criminal. If I were an engineer in charge of approving those,
I'd commit suicide.
I think that you and Frank are in furious agreement on that subject :)
I don't agree that BIKE FACILITIES have to stupid. If American
engineers are not up to task, let's bring Europeans or Cubans.

But there's a Plan B if you find foreigners telling you what to do too
sensitive: TAKE THE LANE EVERY TIME. Make cars leave the lane to pass
you. YOU NEED SPACE. And don't forget to TAME TRAFFIC.
TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
2012-04-11 03:57:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
"TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
The evidence is all around me. "Bike facilities" are not only stupid,
they are criminal. If I were an engineer in charge of approving those,
I'd commit suicide.
I think that you and Frank are in furious agreement on that subject :)
I don't agree that BIKE FACILITIES have to stupid. If American
engineers are not up to task, let's bring Europeans or Cubans.
But there's a Plan B if you find foreigners telling you what to do too
sensitive: TAKE THE LANE EVERY TIME. Make cars leave the lane to pass
you. YOU NEED SPACE. And don't forget to TAME TRAFFIC.
Interesting that the Monkey is now in agreement with the most militant
cyclists. Heck, even I don't take the lane _every_ time!
--
- Frank Krygowski
Sorry, when you don't take the lane you invite drivers to squeeze you,
harass you and intimidate you. You don't share space with a beast 20
times your weight. The noise also rattles you. Some of them roar the
engine on purpose.

When you take the lane you become more visible as well. There's only
one way and that's over your dead body.
TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
2012-04-11 14:48:27 UTC
Permalink
On Apr 10, 11:56 pm, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
Post by TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
Post by TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
"TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
The evidence is all around me. "Bike facilities" are not only stupid,
they are criminal. If I were an engineer in charge of approving those,
I'd commit suicide.
I think that you and Frank are in furious agreement on that subject :)
I don't agree that BIKE FACILITIES have to stupid. If American
engineers are not up to task, let's bring Europeans or Cubans.
But there's a Plan B if you find foreigners telling you what to do too
sensitive: TAKE THE LANE EVERY TIME. Make cars leave the lane to pass
you. YOU NEED SPACE. And don't forget to TAME TRAFFIC.
Interesting that the Monkey is now in agreement with the most militant
cyclists. Heck, even I don't take the lane _every_ time!
--
- Frank Krygowski
Sorry, when you don't take the lane you invite drivers to squeeze you,
harass you and intimidate you. You don't share space with a beast 20
times your weight. The noise also rattles you. Some of them roar the
engine on purpose.
When you take the lane you become more visible as well. There's only
one way and that's over your dead body.
And sometimes it *IS* over your very dead body.
If and when push comes to shove a car or truck will win over a bicycle
every time.
Cheers
But it won't be by "accident." It would be international news and some
here will rejoice. ;)

For it to need to work though it has to be coordinate by different
people, in different cities. Not at all like Critical Mass. It could
one person in Miami, one in NYC and another in Dallas. The more the
better.

This is confirmed by the "laws of nature":

"The big fish eats the little fish unless the little fish get
organized."
His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
2012-04-11 15:50:09 UTC
Permalink
On Apr 11, 11:07 am, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
"The reason is we have now reached a moment where four words -- the
earth is full -- will define our times. This is not a philosophical
statement; this is just science based in physics, chemistry and
biology. There are many science-based analyses of this, but they all
draw the same conclusion -- that we're living beyond our means."
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/08/opinion/gilding-earth-limits/index.html...
I won't dispute those finding because they confirm my own common
sense. The question is what do we do about it. One option is make
pregnant mothers sign an affidavit that she understands the Earth is
full, and that her kid won't have a nice life. We have to make her
understand that cannibalism is a real possibility within a lifetime
due to the scarcity of resources. Or maybe that cats and dogs become
an important part of our diet.
Another option, of course, is to learn to live within our means so the
Earth can sustain us for a long time. Reality is we are stealing from
future generations and that's not nice. There's something I can do
today and that's to ride a bicycle and be conscious of what I eat or
use. Tell you what, I won't drive a car today.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION
"No species has ever been able to multiply without limit. There are two
biological checks upon a rapid increase in number - a high mortality and
low fertility. Unlike other biological organisms, man can choose which
of these checks shall be applied, but one of them must be."
Quite true.
At the same time never forget much like fantasy kumbaya and manufactured
notions of equality the very idea humans are somehow ultimately above
nature is utopian to begin with. That is, more simply put, not all
posterity are created equal; and some children are _still_ preferred
more than others.
another instance of "hope" over experience perhaps?
Why not be one with nature?
We could support very high populations if it weren't for all the waste
and lack of planning. The Dutch get along fine with their bikes in a
highly populated land. Bike traffic seems to flow better there than
rush hour in America, which has a much lower population density. Maybe
the Third World needs to discard the Western model altogether and look
for alternatives such as the bike and the preservation of ecosystems.
The cash crops are wiping out forests and creating hunger.
The West has paid a hefty price for development and it's now in
crisis. I can only hope it doesn't bounce back so it'll learn to live
within its means. Perhaps the best hope we can have in the wasteful
rich countries is to have bicycles occupy our main mode of
transportation within healthy communities.
It's not the bike alone of course. Curitiba, Brazil, is a model of
public transportation from a Third World country. You don't need to be
rich to be prosperous.
Look, you still have to make a choice. And some will be more valued than
others in zero-sum game.
Why fight Darwin?
Why deplore competition when it's selection process?
Why not accept some will be valued more than others by whatever perspective?
Again, why fight nature? And not learn from the "West's" mistakes?
If you don't use the Xerox machine, then it makes sense. My concern is
that consumption habits made in West are recklessly copied, and this
adds to the doomsday scenario.
For example the approaches followed by Taiwan (scooters) and Singapore
(bullet trains) are praiseworthy given their reality not that of the
West. And in turn this not the reality for Africa, where the humble
bike could the vehicle of liberation. Adaption to the environment is a
law of nature.
Then tell us how much more copying you can get if you parrot equality,
liberty, or democracy. When you "liberate" the rest of the 6 or 7
billion, how much worse will the world become?
Tell us.
You are rather pessimist about the outcome but it can only be better
than what it is. Liberation means not only democracy but liberation of
Western patterns that are rather unhealthy and unreal. I can almost
hear it: "I got to have a car to be happy." Oh c'mon, this is Africa,
you better be happy with bicycles and bananas. Yes, the West has some
mighty technology such as the Internet that we can take advantage of,
but we all can be happier by roaming free, than by driving a car and
eating McDonald's.
Bananas and the Revolution
By Peter Schata
There is a long political history behind bananas becoming the fifth
most important food commodity in the world. They were one of the first
products where no expense was spared to create world markets for this
unmistakable fruit, turning whole countries over to banana production,
with stooge dictators controlled by the USA, in what aptly became
known as 'the banana republics'. Half a century after the big
Hollywood-style banana campaigns, the banana reflects ever more
clearly a world economic system concerned only with the kind of
'growth' that means control of the markets and massive profits. What
happens to the environment or to the people, who produce and consume
the fruit of such intentions, appears to be irrelevant.
In our democracies there is little self-determination, and we only
need to look at poverty and unemployment in Europe as well, to raise
doubts as to what is meant by 'free trade'. Such distortions of
language that hoodwink millions of people into accepting their lot,
need to be challenged and overturned. New language means new ideas,
new concepts. This is the revolution. We are this revolution!
Such a revolution is especially important if we are to find ways to
shift from the current forms of egocentric globalisation to a global
society that recognises the actual interrelatedness of all human
beings as well as our interconnectedness with the planet that supports
us.
All we got to do is to get the Third World on board and forget about
Western solutions. Then American engineers will face the fact that
they have to work for their money. Cuba has such a solution but it's
the wrong model: NO BANANAS and NO ROAMING FREE.

This is biking in North and West Africa. Notice that no locals are
riding a bike:



Nice music, right?
His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
2012-04-11 16:07:45 UTC
Permalink
On Apr 11, 11:42 am, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
Post by His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
This is biking in North and West Africa. Notice that no locals are
http://youtu.be/JOzl_hGRiko
Nice music, right?
Here's the next question for engineers:

HOW DO YOU ENFORCE THE 3 FEET LAW?

"Using a bicycle to commute to work, run errands, or for entertainment
value is an economical alternative to maintaining a car or buying gas
at the pump. It even sends an environmentally responsible message.
Unfortunately, it can also be dangerous.

Florida is one of 17 states that has enacted a three foot law with
regard to the spatial relationship between cyclists and automobiles.
One of the purposes of this rule is to cut down on Bicycle Accidents
and Car Accidents. The law states that drivers must grant cyclists a
three foot clearance at all times. Failure to do so can result in
being issued with a citation by law enforcement. On its surface the
law seems like a good idea, however, police officers find it difficult
to enforce, citing reasons such as difficulty determining whether a
driver is exactly three feet away from a bicyclist at all times."

http://injurylaw.labovick.com/2011/06/articles/bicycle-accidents/floridas-3foot-law-for-cyclists-needs-more-attention/

It doesn't take a lawyer to know this is bullshit. I noticed that a
long time ago! Is this some kind of mental masturbation? They even
made bumper stickers to make sure everybody got the point. Do you
think most people got that kind of accuracy with their their car? HAS
ANYONE EVER BEING TICKETED FOR VIOLATING THE LAW?

But the lawyers won't spare you from reality like some other people
do. They profit from it. Here is reality:

"In 2009, approximately, 630 bicyclists were killed in traffic
fatalities, a number that is 2% of all the traffic fatalities for the
year. Florida led the nation with 107 fatal bicycle accidents,
followed by California with 99. The NHTSA data also shows that car
accidents attributed to 51,000 injured bicyclists in 2009. Sadly,
8,000 of the injured bicyclists were children age 14 and under."

***

How can you hide from this reality, Mr. Engineer?

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